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> I Am The Anti Craig
Peter Everhard
post Aug 25 2004, 12:57 PM [ Post #1 ]


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call me arrogant, but I think I know more about New York City than a bunch of hard-up nerds holed up in some house in San Francisco. My "apartment listing service" at http://www.tempcity.com/drama/discus/messages/5/867.html makes MORE money than Craigslist's apartment listing service (since craigslist makes $0 dollars from listing aparments for rent). And I would add that my "apartment listing service" makes money without having 5 million hard-up loser fahkers camped out on my website every day "looking for companionship" and buying nothing.

I think Craigslist is a great little resource, obviously perfect for San Francisco.

But, $7 million dollars a year (craigslist's reported annual revenue) is probably what the head of the Corcoran Group in NYC (largest real estate broker in NYC) has in her office "petty cash" bowl.

It is not rocket science to give away free space and free bandwidth to people who don't want to or who can't buy stuff on your website. Plugstar.com is selling itself as "craigslist-like". Is it just coincidence that you don't see a lot of major internet companies eager to jump at a business plan that involves having 5 million free-loaders camped out on your website all day burning up bandwidth and buying nothing?

The whole central concept of local is that a guy in his city can succeed because he knows HIS market better than anyone else (because he lives there).

Craigslist http://forums.craigslist.org/?forumID=20040813
has nothing to do with New York City. Sure, there may be enough hard-up lonely White Females in NYC (and on Long Island and in NJ) to give craigslist some respectable traffic, but come on. There are $8 million people in NYC and only 38% of them are White. DC is 85% Black, Philiadelpia is about 60% Black. There are reportedly 20 million people in the LongIsland/NewYorkCity/NorthernNewJersey metro area. When you consider a potential 20 million customers in the the NYC metro area along, craigslist's traffic and job postings don't even rate a concern by newspapers and websites targeting New York City.

About the only city on the East Coast close to the racial mix of San Francisco is Boston. Is it then any wonder that the next market craigslist is looking to charge for job postings is Boston? Boston is probably the 2nd largest job posting market for craigslist if you consider job postings per % of population.

Maybe craigslist is aiming for the White suburbs rather than the clearly non-White urban areas. The metros on the East Coast have nothing in common with the metros on the West Coast. If in Philadelphia, DC and NYC you can be anywhere in the city in about 30 minutes without having to drive or own a car, why would a significant number of people need to turn to the internet to hook-up or buy stuff?

The idea of craigslist going into every city with the idea that it knows more about those cities than the people in them IS Corporate Arrogance; it shows that when you scrape away the top couple of layers, Craig is just like every other Corporation, they all want to rule the world.

In The End It All Comes Down To Real Estate

For reasons we point out elsewhere, craigslist has a very limited future using job postings for a fee as its sole source of revenue (the government is in the middle of building free job posting websites). All signs points to craigslist trying to morph into a for-a-fee real estate listing service.

In an interview in Wired today, Craig Newmark brags that craigslist is the "most popular" real esate listing service in NYC (is this hard to do when you don't charge a fee?) The top two real estate brokers in NYC (Corcoran Group and Prudential) both cleared $6.5 BILLION dollars in sales last year. Craiglist reported total annual sales are not even in the 100s of millions.

It seems to me that in order to clear $6.5 billion a year in sales year, real estate brokers in NYC MUST have some kind of "popular" listing system that works for them. www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/craigslist.html?tw=wn_tophead_7
 
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Critter
post Aug 27 2004, 04:00 AM [ Post #2 ]


Christopher Paige
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Demonizing the Hand That Feeds You

If you look closely, you can see a clear strategy on the part of Craigslist to demonize certain businesses in order to justify charging THOSE businesses a fee to post on craigslist (rather than charging the feeloaders camped out on criagslist.org).

Craigslist HAS to know that they can't rely on revenue from San Francisco employers for much longer. First, the One Stop Career Center in San Francisco has to at some point in time offer job postings for free (or some other non-profit in San Francisco will - Craig Newmark is on the One Stop Board in SF). And second, I don't think there are enough employers in San Francisco to support all of the people around the world who will eventually be sitting on craigslist.org buying nothing.

The Job Posting Market around the US is not really a reliable source of revenue for Craigslist because the major job boards have the high-end of the market and the Government's One Stop Career Center Websites will eventually have the low end of the market.

Real Estate listings HAS to be what craigslist has its eye on and what ebay.com also has its eye on.

Now, when you set your eyes on the Real Estate prize, New York City has to be the Biggest Puzzy on the Block. The top two real estate brokers in New York city both had $6.5 billion dollars in sales last year.

Craigslist has been hinting in a series of articles and statements that FOR-FEE real estate brokers are bad guys and that they should therefore be charged a fee to post on craigslist. Craigslist is fanning the masses on its site to get behind the idea of charging real estate brokers a fee to post on craigslist because they are bad.

Now, I've heard of bitting the hands that feeds you, but I think this falls under the category of DEMONIZING the hand that feeds you. I think it is in fact the apartment listing business in New York City and in other metros that Craigslist and Ebay intend to go after.

Wired: Has anyone made moral compromises that have affected craigslist users?
Craig Newmark: Apartment brokers in Manhattan.
Wired: Now you're talking evil.
Craig Newmark: They can be very aggressive. We get complaints that they'll list apartments on craigslist as having no fees, then try to extract a fee when people show up. That's a difference of two months' rent.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/c...tw=wn_tophead_7


Quality Traffic

The CEO of Monster.com (Andrew McKelvey) used a phrase in an interview with Business Week that I think will become THE mantra of the New "Google-Adsense Internet". Monster's CEO said that Monster.com was interested in "QUALITY TRAFFIC", i.e. traffic that actually bought something on monster.com.

This Traffic Thing Is All Over
Q: Last year, you decided not to promote the site through MSN (MSFT ) and AOL (TWX ) and lost some traffic to rivals as a result. Was it the right decision?
A: We think now that this traffic thing is all over. There were a lot of people that believed that traffic was in direct proportion to revenue, and that's not the case.

AOL and MSN were very, very expensive, and they didn't deliver quality traffic [that translated into sales]. We took that money and put it into branding of Monster and more efficient marketing. And that has really paid off. We think our traffic is better today [in terms of delivering revenue] than it was a year ago.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con..._8307_tc057.htm


In the old days, the magic number of about 250,000 visitors to your website was considered the requirement to getting major advertisers to advertise on your website. Google adsense makes the magic 250,000 visitors irrelevant. With Google Adsense you can get a major advertiser like Ford Motor Company with only 20 visitors to your website IF you use the words "automobile" or Ford or the phrase "new cars" etc. in the text on your site.


There is a guy publishing this blog on NYC real estate that has what has to be called outrageously high traffic. This guy clearly is connected with the little gang of bloggers that are his fan club. But, the $64,000 question is: is anyone in his fan club buying any real estate?
 
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Critter
post Aug 28 2004, 10:56 PM [ Post #3 ]


Christopher Paige
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We Don't Do Partnerships

Some time ago, I actually suggested to Craigslist a partnership that I thought would work for it and for this site. While Craig Newmark entertained the idea, Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster jumped into the conversation and proclaimed: "We Don't Do Partnerships. No matter what they are."

While I am a relative nobody, "We don't do partnerships, no matter what they are" has to be the dumbest *hit ever spoken by a guy holed-up in San Francisco who with visions/delusions of walking into every major metro on the planet and simply taking over (What is Wal-Mart going to be doing while all this is going on?).

I would say that if it is craiglist's intent to become a PROFITABLE factor in the NYC real estate listing business, craisglist is going to have to partner with somebody in New York City.

But then, on the other hand, maybe all of the people making billions of dollars in NYC on real estate are idiots. Maybe those 14 or so craigslist guys holded up in some house in San Francisco do in fact know more about making money in Real Estate in New York City than the Real Estate Brokers in NYC doing $6.5 billion dollars a year in sales.

Is Craigslist a Success in New York City?

Personally, I don't exactly see how Craig Newmark can rightly proclaim craigslist as the most popular real estate listing service in New York City. AND,

When you consider that there are about 20 million people in the greater NYC/Long Island/Northern NJ metro area, craigslist's traffic and job postings (and real estate postings) don't seem to me to be nearly close to being enough for anyone to proclaim craigslist a success in NYC.
 
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Critter
post Sep 6 2004, 04:31 PM [ Post #4 ]


Christopher Paige
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Is This Like New Wave Fear?

If the New York Times is afraid of Craigslist stealing its classified business, it sure has a funny way of showing it. The New York Times today carries a fluff piece on Craig Newmark's on-going "I just wanna do good" routine. If the New York Times considered Craigslist a factor would it be promoting the site in its pages?

Consider this, in the last six years or so, the New York Times has (to my knowledge) only mentioned Net-temps.com once and that was to promote another website as a major competitor to Net-Temps.com
. It seems to me that Net-temps.com more than any other job site was/is responsible for there being almost zero big banner ads from temp agencies on the first page of the New York Times Sunday Classified page.

Back in the day, the entire first page of the New York Times Sunday Classified Section was ALL temp agency advertising.
 
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Diane
post Sep 20 2004, 05:05 PM [ Post #5 ]


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Craig hates NYC, he provides a good service but is irrogant. Sometimes the site gets redundent. peoiple just post and post. I happen to like the look of www.plugstar.com and the job section is actually much better than craigslist. I posted an ad for a job and got 3 replies. Its great to see another site that is dedicated to community. Good Luck to all using either site. I will continue to provide plugstar.com witth content because i like the fact that they promote on google and yahoo. craigslist doesn't help you sell beyond the clist user base.
 
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Bigdaddyrunninthangs
post Sep 21 2004, 03:35 PM [ Post #6 ]


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QUOTE (Peter Everhard @ Aug 25 2004, 05:57 PM)


But, $7 million dollars a year (craigslist's reported annual revenue) is probably what the head of the Corcoran Group in NYC (largest real estate broker in NYC) has in her office "petty cash" bowl.


Just curious, but where did you get this financial data on Criagslist?
 
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tempster
post Sep 21 2004, 03:52 PM [ Post #7 ]


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craigslist's revenue has been estimated in various publications as being between $7 million and $12 million dollars a year. Obviously, no one except craigslist itself knows exactly how much it really is.
 
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Critter
post Sep 26 2004, 02:06 AM [ Post #8 ]


Christopher Paige
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September 20, 2004 08:58 AM US Eastern Timezone

The New York Times Company Reports August Revenues and Provides Earnings Guidance

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 20, 2004--The New York Times Company announced today that in August 2004 advertising revenues for the Company's business units increased 7.8% and total Company revenues increased 3.5% compared with the results for the same month last year.


"Our ad revenue performance strengthened in August, with growth across all of our business groups," said Leonard P. Forman, executive vice president and chief financial officer. "However, September's performance to date, which has been negatively affected by the timing of the Labor Day weekend (normally a period of reduced advertising), has failed to demonstrate the kind of consistent revenue growth we had been looking for as we reach the fall.

"As a result, we are adjusting our full-year earnings guidance to be at or slightly below our 2003 earnings of $1.98 per share, with earnings of 30 to 33 cents per share in the third quarter. While we are not changing our cost guidance for the year, it is likely that expenses will be closer to the mid-single digit end of the range, taking into account expenses related to election coverage, significant editorial product enhancements and the effect of the hurricanes on our southeastern properties."

Advertising results for August were as follows:

The New York Times Media Group - Advertising revenues for The New York Times Media Group rose 6.9% for August 2004 compared with August 2003. National advertising revenues grew as strength in American fashion and entertainment offset softness in transportation, media and financial/insurance advertising. The Times benefited significantly from "T" Style Magazine, its redesigned special section of The New York Times Magazine, which debuted on August 29. In addition, The Times saw increased advocacy advertising related to the Republican National Convention.

Retail advertising revenues increased as growth in department store advertising offset weak home furnishing store advertising. Classified advertising revenues rose with strength in all major categories - help wanted, real estate and automotive.

New England Media Group - Advertising revenues for the New England Media Group increased 9.4% for August 2004 compared with August 2003. National advertising revenues rose as gains in travel and various other ad categories offset weakness in telecommunications and technology advertising. Retail advertising revenues increased as growth in jewelry and home furnishing advertising more than offset softness in sports/toys, apparel/footwear, discount store and department store advertising. The Boston Globe benefited from the timing of the shift of "Your Home Magazine" from September to August. Classified advertising revenues increased on growth in all categories with particular strength in help-wanted.

Regional Media Group - Advertising revenues for the Regional Media Group rose 6.8% for August 2004 compared with August 2003. Retail advertising revenues increased on growth in financial, service business, grocery and specialty retail store advertising. Classified advertising revenues grew as strength in the help-wanted and real estate categories offset softness in automotive advertising.

The Company's Internet ad revenues, which are included in the figures for the three media groups above, increased 31.4% for August 2004 compared with August 2003 due to strong growth in display advertising and in all classified advertising categories.

Circulation revenues increased 0.4% for August 2004 compared with August 2003. Circulation revenues increased for the New England Media Group and were down slightly for the New York Times Media Group and the Regional Media Group.

Broadcast Media Group - Advertising revenues for the Broadcast Media Group increased 10.7% for August 2004 compared with the same month last year due to growth in political, automotive, telecommunications and financial advertising.

2004 Guidance Based on GAAP

Item Previous 2004 Guidance Updated 2004 Guidance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Company Growth rate expected to be in Growth rate expected to
Advertising the low- to mid-single digits be in the low- to mid-
Revenues single digits
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Media Group Growth rate expected to be in Expected to be on a par
Circulation the low-single digits with 2003
Revenues
(Formerly
Newspaper
Group)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsprint Cost Growth rate expected to be Growth rate expected to be
Per Ton in the low teens in the low teens
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Company Growth rate expected to be in Growth rate expected to
Expenses the low- to mid-single digits be in the low- to mid-
single digits
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depreciation & $145 to $150 million $145 to $150 million
Amortization
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Capital $220 to $250 million $175 to $205 million
Expenditures (a)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Net loss from Breakeven to a loss of Breakeven to a loss of
Joint $5 million $5 million
Ventures
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interest
Expense $42 to $46 million $42 to $46 million
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tax Rate 39.5% 39.5%
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diluted Growth rate expected to be in EPS expected to be at
Earnings Per the low- to mid-single or slightly below the
Share digits over 2003 EPS of $1.98 in 2003
$1.98
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(a) Due to delays, costs in 2004 related to the Company's interest in
a new headquarters are now expected to be $55 to $65 million. The
Company expects to occupy its new headquarters in 2007.


Except for the historical information contained herein, the matters discussed in this press release are forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those predicted by such forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties include national and local conditions, as well as competition, that could influence the levels (rate and volume) of retail, national and classified advertising and circulation generated by the Company's various markets and material increases in newsprint prices. They also include other risks detailed from time to time in the Company's publicly-filed documents, including the Company's Annual Report on Form 10-K for the period ended December 28, 2003. The Company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

The New York Times Company (NYSE: NYT), a leading media company with 2003 revenues of $3.2 billion, includes The New York Times, the International Herald Tribune, The Boston Globe, 16 other newspapers, eight network-affiliated television stations, two New York City radio stations and more than 40 Web sites, including NYTimes.com and Boston.com. For the fourth consecutive year, the Company was ranked No. 1 in the publishing industry in Fortune's 2004 list of America's Most Admired Companies. The Company's core purpose is to enhance society by creating, collecting and distributing high-quality news, information and entertainment.

THE NEW YORK TIMES COMPANY
2004 TOTAL COMPANY REVENUES (a)
AUGUST AND YEAR TO DATE

Total Company Revenues
($ 000's)
August Year to Date
---------------------------------------------------------
% %
2004 2003 Change 2004 2003 Change
-------- --------- ------ ----------- ----------- ------
Advertising
Revenues
News Media
National(cool.gif $56,471 $52,185 +8.2 $580,288 $563,362 +3.0
Retail© 32,656 31,110 +5.0 291,818 286,538 +1.8
Classified(d) 42,952 39,906 +7.6 398,557 382,915 +4.1
Other Ad
Revenue(e) 3,358 2,735 +22.8 28,337 23,731 +19.4
--------- -------- ---------- ----------
Sub-Total 135,436 125,936 +7.5 1,299,000 1,256,547 +3.4
Broadcast
Media 11,478 10,364 +10.7 97,309 88,633 +9.8
--------- -------- ---------- ----------
Total
Advertising
Revenues 146,915 136,300 +7.8 1,396,309 1,345,180 +3.8

Circulation
Revenues 67,689 67,404 +0.4 591,271 592,129 -0.1
Other
Revenues(f) 17,307 20,339 -14.9 141,276 139,664 +1.2
--------- -------- ---------- ----------

Total Company
Revenues $231,910 $224,043 +3.5 $2,128,856 $2,076,973 +2.5
========= ======== ========== ==========

(a) Numbers may not add due to rounding.

(cool.gif Includes all ad revenue from the International Herald Tribune.

© Includes all preprint revenues.

(d) Includes legal advertising.

(e) Primarily includes ad revenue from the Regional Media Group's
magazines.

(f) Primarily includes revenues from wholesale delivery operations,
news services, direct marketing, digital archives and commercial
printing.

THE NEW YORK TIMES COMPANY
2004 ADVERTISING REVENUES (a)
AUGUST AND YEAR TO DATE

Total Company Advertising Revenues
($ 000's)
August Year to Date
---------------------------------------------------------
% %
2004 2003 Change 2004 2003 Change
--------- --------- ------ ----------- ----------- ------
News Media
New York
Times Media
Group (cool.gif $73,441 $68,683 +6.9 $757,862 $739,934 +2.4
New England
Media Group
© 35,504 32,456 +9.4 311,612 297,974 +4.6
Regional
Media Group 26,492 24,797 +6.8 229,526 218,638 +5.0
--------- --------- ----------- -----------

Sub-Total 135,436 125,936 +7.5 1,299,000 1,256,547 +3.4

Broadcast
Media 11,478 10,364 +10.7 97,309 88,633 +9.8
--------- --------- ----------- -----------

Total Company
Ad Revenues $146,915 $136,300 +7.8 $1,396,309 $1,345,180 +3.8
========= ========= =========== ===========

(a) Numbers may not add due to rounding.
(cool.gif The New York Times, NYTimes.com and the International Herald
Tribune.
© The Boston Globe, Boston.com and the Worcester Telegram & Gazette.

THE NEW YORK TIMES COMPANY
2004 NEWS MEDIA AD REVENUE GROWTH
BY CLASSIFIED CATEGORY
AUGUST AND YEAR TO DATE

% Change % Change
August '04 YTD '04
vs. August '03 vs. YTD '03
-----------------------------

News Media
Help-Wanted +18.6 +11.6
Real Estate +9.8 -2.0
Automotive +0.1 +7.4

THE NEW YORK TIMES COMPANY
2004 PRINT ADVERTISING VOLUME (a)
(Inches in thousands, Preprints in thousands of copies)
AUGUST AND YEAR TO DATE

August

2004 2003 Change
-------- -------- ------
National (cool.gif 160.4 150.8 +6.4
Retail 463.4 470.4 -1.5
Classified 750.4 759.6 -1.2
-------- --------
Total ROP 1,374.1 1,380.8 -0.5
-------- --------

Part Run/ Zoned 155.3 140.1 +10.8
-------- --------
Total 1,529.4 1,521.0 +0.6
======== ========

Preprints 217,567 205,902 +5.7


Year to Date

2004 2003 Change
--------- -------- ------
National (cool.gif 1,581.2 1,596.3 -1.0
Retail 4,146.7 4,237.2 -2.1
Classified 6,670.5 6,676.3 -0.1
--------- ---------
Total ROP 12,398.4 12,509.8 -0.9
--------- ---------

Part Run/ Zoned 1,448.5 1,354.0 +7.0

Total 13,846.9 13,863.8 -0.1
========= =========

Preprints 1,787,730 1,765,555 +1.3


(a) Advertising volume is based on preliminary internal data, which
may be updated in subsequent reports and may not be indicative of
advertising revenue or operating profit. Numbers may not add due
to rounding.

(cool.gif Includes all ad volume from the International Herald Tribune.


This press release can be downloaded from www.nytco.com

Contacts


The New York Times Company
Catherine J. Mathis, 212-556-1981
E-mail: mathis@nytimes.com
or
Paula Schwartz, 212-556-5224
E-mail: schwap@nytimes.com





--------------------
Christopher Paige
http://www.honation.com
Copyright 1996-2004 Relationship LLC
 
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